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Update!
#11
Dear Charles or Ross will Big Ant be at E3 and if so is Dirt Track something that can be discussed there if there is not something in the works already?
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#12
I would love to see us come up with a page to donate to the cause, that states your donation amount and saves email. That way if you donate a certain amount you can get the copy or same thing as the Kickstarter. I am starting to feel like the game is dead, and in the states the racing is just heating up. I would love to see big ant make the game, because they would be the best at it. I don't want to start emailing other companies to see if they would make it, because big ant has the people and the know how to make a great game. The game can be made, we just have to work on getting back at it again. At this point I feel the game to be dead, I don't want to wait another 10 years for a new dirt track racing game that we all deserve.
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#13
Just a little disappointing not a word from Big Ant. i donated to kick starter. Would be nice just to hear something.
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#14
(07-05-2016, 10:13 AM)Bgaines14 Wrote: Just a little disappointing not a word from Big Ant. i donated to kick starter. Would be nice just to hear something.

The kickstarter failed though so right now there is no game to update you on.
"I'm not saying it's ugly but, that tackle clearly wouldn't get many valentines cards" - Eddie Hemmings '17
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#15
(07-05-2016, 02:35 PM)theaxe1606 Wrote:
(07-05-2016, 10:13 AM)Bgaines14 Wrote: Just a little disappointing not a word from Big Ant. i donated to kick starter. Would be nice just to hear something.

The kickstarter failed though so right now there is no game to update you on.

Ross told me when it failed he would keep pushing for the game. I just want to hear from him or the team on if they have heard anything? If they have heard something, what we can do to help, or if we should look else where for the game:
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#16
(07-06-2016, 05:44 AM)birddawg Wrote:
(07-05-2016, 02:35 PM)theaxe1606 Wrote:
(07-05-2016, 10:13 AM)Bgaines14 Wrote: Just a little disappointing not a word from Big Ant. i donated to kick starter. Would be nice just to hear something.

The kickstarter failed though so right now there is no game to update you on.

Ross told me when it failed he would keep pushing for the game. I just want to hear from him or the team on if they have heard anything? If they have heard something, what we can do to help, or if we should look else where for the game:

They have probably decided to dedicate their resources to making other games that will sell.
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#17
I don't think that DT would have a problem selling, but the funding is what is needed to get it off the ground. Looking at what they had to show already I would think (and hope so) that while it's not top priority now... that it'll find it's way eventually.

I'd say they might be a little busy with Cricket at the moment, but knowing Big Ant... they'd have fingers in other pies we don't know about yet. Smile
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.”
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#18
No news, good news? I seriously hope there's still a commitment here. I still believe very strongly in this project even with some of the other options floating around out there or in the works. There's only so much one of the ecosystems will likely provide us as their resources are spread pretty thin amongst various disciplines of racing. They might provide a dirt car or two or three and a handful of tracks but it's nothing remotely like what a modding community could provide in collaboration with a game developer, esp. with some of the tools and resources that exist out there now. With your support of FBX... it could be huge for people to secure tools and make things happen on the cheap (i.e. Blender can do FBX and it's free). Not to mention they've already in articles highlighted arbitrary constraints on how they choose tracks and with the sheer # of bullring tracks that don't provide pitting or track entry from the infield, that's going to cut out a huge # of popular dirt tracks that many dirt track fans would love to race. I can guarantee tracks like Macon, Kankakee, Fairbury, Brownstown (IN), Farmer City, et al. are the types of tracks that many dirt sim people love... but that won't be likely based on the supposed constraints they've maintained on the platform.

A couple alternatives to the above are one man band type operations where it could take years for anything of substance to develop. That's nothing remotely on the level of what I feel you guys can do. I feel it'd be far more timely with you guys than what they provide.

Otherwise... we've got titles that aren't so much tailored to dirt oval racing but are much broader "modding platforms" that have primary focuses that aren't typically centered around solid axle-based dirt cars like sprints and late models and modifieds and midgets and street stocks and the like. We can fudge them, we have many times before... but getting the right data subsets for a bias ply tire, solid rear axle, and the various suspensions bits/pieces we need? Not very likely... not unless things sell so well for the title I noted in the first paragraph lighting a fire under the developers of the modding platforms to provide proof of concepts. One of the titles did their own pseudo-NASCAR DLC release to show they can pretty much match or potentially exceed what the paid service does with regards to physics. It might have to come to that before anyone else steps in... or maybe it's them setting the bar for others to show they can take it and run with it. That's what my personal beliefs are with the right modding platform we can exceed anything they put out. Maybe not in laser scanned content, but in variety of content and in greater flexibility.

Basically put... I know there's been some resistance, and I think some of that is skepticism. The hardcore sim crowd has been jaded since the transition from DTR to DTR2. It, by and large, is what created the modding communities that existed in NASCAR Heat for dirt years ago. People wanted a NR2K3-level sim, they were treated to a minor update vs. the laundry list of requests many submitted. It pushed them to see if they could do their own efforts elsewhere. The movement from DTR2 to Saturday Night Speedway which took away DE2-edited game modding for a console backport did even more damage to the modders and sim racing audience that long clamored for an NR2K3-level dirt sim. I honestly feel that had Saturday Night Speedway or another title along the way provided similar editing to what we've had with Heat and RFactor? The Kickstarter would've paid off big and continue to do so every few years. We just have to get over that hump and change the perceptions and perspectives.

I think that what you guys are potentially providing could be the Holy Grail for all of us. It's why I jumped in and put as much $ as I could into the Kickstarter and continued to advocate and lobby for others to do the same. Unfortunately, it didn't pan out but I still think there's considerable value in an oval racing tailored-game that allows modding on the PC (and maybe leads to collaborations and subletting of content and licensing work to provide similar for consoles, either that or some form of delivery system where modders content could appear in a pseudo "store" based on a packaged file we deliver that would be downloadable and usable across all platforms, including liveries, tracks and parts/content upgrades). Not just dirt itself but I can see asphalt having considerable value. If you need to broaden the appeal, perhaps including both could draw more of a fanbase in. Maybe even some in-built abilities to cater towards the figure 8 and demo derby crowd could be added as well. I'll admit it's not my typical or traditional cup o' tea (my cousin is the exact opposite, loves the Team Demo's held out at Route 66 and formerly at Santa Fe Speedway -- which I do admit for demo derbies they're some of the best there is) but... there's a large and rabid fanbase for both. Having the ability to mod for dirt and asphalt and various forms of carnage/demo derby/figure-8 type events could draw in a pretty diverse crowd and a larger # of buyers on PC and consoles. It also provides additional depth to the title and might draw in more clients.

Just brainstorming here... because this really needs to happen.

Hope everything's going awesome guys!
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#19
iRacing is working on a dirt sim, or working on putting dirt into their platform. I believe it is just Eldora and Williams Grove with sprint cars.
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#20
(09-29-2016, 11:56 PM)mgman11 Wrote: iRacing is working on a dirt sim, or working on putting dirt into their platform. I believe it is just Eldora and Williams Grove with sprint cars.

Yes (sprints, late models and a porting of their Camaro street stock to dirt)... but they 1) won't support modding, 2) won't have offline AI for those that are in slower internet areas or that just prefer to race offline, 3) won't support consoles and will strictly be the "sim" level mode (no arcade, no intermediate modes, etc.) and 4) have already explained in a blog posting about some of their traditional constraints for building tracks. There's a reason, despite having pavement sprint cars and asphalt late models, that the smallest track they have in-game is a 3/8ths-mile track. They don't allow tracks to be made that require track entry via an external pit area (i.e. outside the track surface). All cars have to enter the track for sessions from the infield. This could eliminate potentials of a # of tracks, a short example:

Fairbury, Illinois
Boone, Iowa
Brownstown, Indiana
141 Speedway in Maribel, Wisconsin
Macon, Illinois
Rockford Speedway (asphalt track they put dirt on, 1/4 mile this year for a WoO Sprint and WoO Late Model show)
Humboldt, Kansas
Vinton, Iowa
Bridgeport, New Jersey
Accord, New York
Brewerton, New York
La Salle, Illinois
Ashland, Wisconsin
Farmer City, Illinois
Angell Park Speedway (Sun Prairie, Wisconsin)

Amongst countless others.

It already negates places like Slinger Speedway (Slinger, Wisconsin) and Rockford Speedway (Rockford, Illinois) from being used in-game with the asphalt late models. Not that other tracks perfectly sized to their constraints aren't seeing love either. You can't do the big 4 asphalt oval late model events (Winchester 400 at Winchester Speedway [Winchester, Indiana], All-American 400 at the Nashville Fairgrounds Speedway [Nashville, Tennessee], World Crown 300 at Gresham Motorsports Park [Jefferson, Georgia] and The Snowball Derby at Five Flags Speedway [Pensacola, Florida]) in iRacing because the tracks just aren't there. The Snowball Derby can be done... but that's about it.


There're other potential shortcomings with iRacing as well. Like you noted, a limited track list that will likely remain limited over a longer span. This is a pretty sizable company for a sim racing-only focused company, but they also tend to cater product development and release to the largest markets. Like it or not... dirt oval racing exists within the U.S., Canada, Australia and New Zealand. With iRacing building a significant number of tracks and cars across various disciplines and surfaces, that spreads their focus to outside of the dirt world. Not to mention, as part of #DirtConfirmed, they added rallying. WRC, along with Formula One, are two of the largest audiences in the world in terms of fanbase. There are fans in literally almost every country in Europe, Asia, Australia, the U.S., Canada, Mexico, the UK, South America and even Africa. That's true of road racing with sports cars/prototypes as well and there're TONS of tracks to do there.

If you look at asphalt racing which has a smaller demographic... they've built sprint cars, SK/Whelen mods, 2 different versions of asphalt late models, and have squat in terms of tracks built for those classes.

Am I excited about iRacing? Sure. I like it because as a modder it is going to spell out a lot of the myths and unknowns about dirt racing. It'll set the bar for what we expect a car to drive like from here on out. It won't be some modder shooting from the hip. They'll have access to real empirical data, engineers, tire personnel, track promoters... they'll dot the i's and cross the t's and point out where the modders have been basically taking wild guesses. You can see that in RFactor with the sheer # of dirt late model game mods and how all of them drove different. A lot of that is trying to take a game that wasn't focused on dirt oval racing and making it sort of drive like a dirt car. Having a developer catering and tailored to dirt to work with could help not only shorten the development lead-times for game mods but could make every single mod better.

But even there... it's what the modder doesn't know and has 0 access to because of a lack of $. Tire data to do proper slip angles. Some form of a standardized method of gripping tracks that's somehow based on some quantifiable data set hinged on reality vs. seat of the pants and arbitrary guessing.

iRacing being there puts it out in the open, it sets a bar of what it SHOULD be like. That gives modders something to shoot for. Even if it's still all fudged data and shooting from the hip, it gives the modder something to model off of and focus on.

That said... why do I still want to see a game that is 100% moddable?

See what I posted above. Tracks. Cars. If you want to run a Fairbury American Legion Speedway for a sim Prairie Dirt Classic. If you want to run the Sim Jackson 100 at Brownstown Speedway? If you want a Sim Super Nationals at Boone, Iowa. A Clash at the Creek IX at 141 Speedway in Maribel, Wisconsin. If you want to run an IMCA modified at Deer Creek Speedway, you can't do that in iRacing unless 1) they laser scan and build an actual IMCA modified and 2) build a laser scanned replica of Deer Creek Speedway (Spring Valley, Minnesota). If I want to build 50 late model chassis' or 250 modified chassis for an IMCA game mod, iRacing is going to require licensing from each car builder (or even parts suppliers). As a modder, I can build them and ship them for free for everyone to install and use.

Let alone tracks like Atomic Speedway (Tennessee), Hales Corners (Wisconsin), Santa Fe Speedway (Illinois), East Windsor Speedway (New Jersey) or The New York State Fairgrounds (Syracuse, New York) that all hold a special place near and dear to dirt oval race fans but that, unfortunately, for one reason or another, are no longer in existence. You are unable to laser scan things that are no longer tangible in real life. Yet if you have access to a 3D modeler and enough reference photos you can get close enough to many ardent fans and historians to be passable. iRacing really isn't in this business (with possible exception to the full circuit at Monza... and really, "The Wall" portion is still in existence just no longer used in real life), but game modders have been for years... even going back in time to give road racers historic renditions of tracks that have been modernized years later.

This is why I stress that what Big Ant is doing is very important and why it warrants more of the communities' ears.
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