Poll: Who would you support
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Big Ant Studios
79.03%
49 79.03%
EA Sports
20.97%
13 20.97%
Total 62 vote(s) 100%
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RLL3 (Big Ant Studios) v NRL 16 (EA Sports)
After reading this thread I'm sadly not surprised that some people have no idea of what goes on in relation to video game markets and budgets.

Over the many years I've been following the development of Rugby, League and Cricket titles, I've tried my best to listen and learn from the various developers I've communicated with online and of course I still know little when compared to them at all.

Generally I try my best to speak of what I know or am at least very sure of and otherwise ask questions. This has usually been a good policy and has taught me a fair bit.

The likes of Sanzar and Ruck have been similar in their approaches and it shows in their ideas and responses.

It's patently obvious to me that anyone who claims that EA will get into producing a Rugby League title, or that if (in fantasy land) they did they'd even make it themselves, let alone spend enough to make a good game has zero knowledge on sports game markets or is completely delusional.

Let's go down the fantasy land route. Let's say EA for whatever reason decided to forget about their large profit objectives and wanted to make a Rugby League game. They'd do an HB Studios again or send it the way of an Australasian developer.

They'd still want to be certain of making some reasonable profit, so they'd almost certainly give the developer a smaller budget than what Big Ant currently operate on.

All of a sudden, a seriously deficient backwards step in quality would be made and we'd end up with the kind of game Union is getting with Rugby '15 (and by the looks, Rugby World Cup '15).

A lot of the people who're greedily complaining now (about nothing), would suddenly start begging for a return to HES/Tru Blu and Big Ant.

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the irony for all the EA lovers out there is that IF they wanted to have their name on an NRL title they would outsource BA or Wicked Witch or Sidhe or some local developer, and it would turn out no better than a TB published title. the power of marketing/branding is huge.
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(08-18-2015, 11:53 AM)ak47 Wrote: the irony for all the EA lovers out there is that IF they wanted to have their name on an NRL title they would outsource BA or Wicked Witch or Sidhe or some local developer, and it would turn out no better than a TB published title. the power of marketing/branding is huge.

Also, chances are that to keep costs down, they would prefer the contracted party to not answer so many questions of the public and not add personal touches, like peoples surnames etc, into the game.

(Also, forgot to add your name to those I mentioned on here who've been following local games development for a long time). Wink

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I love my customization and I'm almost positive that would be one of the first casualties of an EA "funded" game. Can't say personally if the Creation Centre for FIFA was any good, as they killed that before I got a chance to play with it.

EA Sports "It's in the game... until we remove it..." Smile
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.”
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(08-17-2015, 08:30 PM)sanzar Wrote: But that's beside the point - I get that you hate the League games, but that doesn't change the cold hard fact that IF EA were to invest in a Rugby League title then the economic realities would dictate they invested less money than they did in Union.

Yes. I hate league games. That's why I'm on this forum. Really? Let's try and be adult about this.

As for economics that all comes down to the team producing the game and how they handle their resources. That said EA would sell more copies as they'd produce a better product. Will happily come back and retract my position depending on how RLL3 goes.
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Depends if your criticism is valid and if it is constructive in any way.
RR2, most of your criticism is not.
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(08-18-2015, 05:45 PM)FiddleDiddle Wrote: That said EA would sell more copies as they'd produce a better product.

What is this based on though? I could understand they might sell more copies based on brand recognition or better promotion (If Big Ant weren't in the way)... but didn't they get HB Studios to make their previous games. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HB_Studios

And aren't HB Studios still missing the mark? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_15

They could potentially find a new developer but going off the information at hand, there is nothing to justify the better product claim.
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.”
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(08-18-2015, 05:45 PM)FiddleDiddle Wrote: As for economics that all comes down to the team producing the game and how they handle their resources. That said EA would sell more copies as they'd produce a better product. Will happily come back and retract my position depending on how RLL3 goes.

How can you make a statement, worded as though it's a statement of fact that EA WOULD sell more copies as they'd produce a better product?

It's almost certain that they would not put forward the budget necessary to equal the budget of RLL3 due to the lack the financial returns they require to invest in new sports.

Just because EA are rich, doesn't mean they do deals to lose money. They are sharp operators and wouldn't invest more than would be required to just barely make the game. They'd need to see a very profitable return from a League game to want to make another one, so you would see the bare minimum of features in a first edition.

Ruck mentioned the lack of customisation that games like Fifa have. What makes you think they'd include a high degree of that for a League game?

Finally, why would you come back and "retract your opinion depending on how RLL3 goes?". You're making statements worded as fact, why would how RLL3 change what you've stated as fact? How RLL3 goes has zero bearing on the EA side of the equation, so how can seeing one game change your opinion of a two game scenario?

(08-18-2015, 06:26 PM)roostersule2 Wrote: Yes it is.

I think the game has poor likenesses, that's a perfectly valid critiscm.

It's a valid criticism in so much as it's a point of view that some will share and others won't.

Myself, I'd say that it has poor likenesses yes, but also some average ones, some good ones and even some very good ones. There is no real way anyone can say that EA would do better as they'd outsource the work anyhow and it's likely it'd be on a razor thin budget. No-one invests heavily in something that doesn't have the market to justify it.

They aren't even vaguely interested in League and haven't been since the 90's and yes, the work was outsourced then too.

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There is a saying which says "The rich don't get rich by writing a lot of cheques"

I guarantee you if EA got a Rugby League license it'd be a very basic game and it wouldn't ever really significantly grow. You'd have minimal changes every year but they'd only exist to get another hundred out of you and there wouldn't be a lot of money in it.

Big Ant? They're clearly passionate about it. Was RLL2 perfect? No. Will RLL3 be perfect? Probably not but they're building towards a perfect game. Whether that's RLL3 or RLL13 I'm confident they'll one day get there.

I still stand by the fact that if both BigAnt and EA Sports released a league game I'd buy it but I think for the long term benefit of Rugby League gaming BigAnt are the team you want.
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(08-18-2015, 05:45 PM)FiddleDiddle Wrote: Yes. I hate league games. That's why I'm on this forum. Really? Let's try and be adult about this.
I didn't say you hate "league games," I said you hate "the league games," which your description of them as all to date as universally being "pathetic" would indicate you do.

(08-18-2015, 05:45 PM)FiddleDiddle Wrote: As for economics that all comes down to the team producing the game and how they handle their resources. That said EA would sell more copies as they'd produce a better product. Will happily come back and retract my position depending on how RLL3 goes.

To borrow your earlier phrase, "let's try to be adult about this."

Your statement isn't anchored in reality, but rather is based on wishful thinking.

Let's be logical about this. What do we know about EA's approach to smaller sports markets?

We know that with Rugby Union they originally tested the market in 2000 with a PS2 game that was half finished and looked like a PSX game. Here's a look at the game's graphics:
[Image: earugby_review_inline_01.jpg]
Compare that to their FIFA title from the same year:
[Image: 52155-FIFA_2001_(E)-6.jpg]

They then waited three years to look at a follow up, but it was mostly designed to cash in on the World Cup, so also came out half finished, extremely buggy and looked worse than the 2001 FIFA game:
[Image: rugby2004_112003_001.jpg]

As previously noted, it was a terrible failure that was broadly panned as one of the worst sports games out at the time.

Following this, they decided to invest a little more in the series and the game play and graphics were upgraded, resulting in EA's first genuinely decent Rugby game - EA Rugby 2005:
[Image: rugby-2005-20050311114852132.jpg]
Whilst playing well, this title was still not received as well as the company liked, with fans complaining it was still way behind it's other flagship titles in soccer and NFL.

EA gave HB Studios two more goes, with them releasing Rugby 2006 and 08. Both featured some nice gradual improvements, but fans still lamented how they were below EA expectations and the old complaint about the games not playing as well as the old JLR remained.

Following that EA abandoned Rugby altogether.

So there you have it. EA spent 8 years producing 5 rugby games that ranged from dreadful to decent and then canned the series.

So if EA don't think Union is worthwhile investing in AT ALL anymore, why would they invest in League to begin with?
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